We want you at The Briefing Room's LFN S3 DVD discussions
"No one from the outside can understand who we are." ~ M to N in Escape
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NIGHTJESSI |
LFN on DVD: Outside the Box |
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I have a crazy weekend ahead of me and I'm not sure when I'll be back to get this thread up, so I figured earlier was better than later. Thanks again to all of you who are keeping these DVD discussions going in my absence. I really hope I can join you all again soon.
~*~ Keeper of the Nocturnal Flame ~*~
We want you at The Briefing Room's LFN S3 DVD discussions "No one from the outside can understand who we are." ~ M to N in Escape |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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This eppy is all about Nikita and her recruitment. I think its not until now that Michael starts to believe that she in fact wasn't the cold-blooded killer he thought he had trained.
I loved the scene in Michael's office when Nikita is skirting the issue of her sim mission with Kruger, and Michael finally says, "Stop playing games Nikita. What's really going on?" "It took me four days to find Nikita. That leaves eleven"
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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elevendaze --
Quote:I think he'd realized THAT the minute she killed the thug in the sewer to save his life in the pilot! She looked completely shell-shocked afterward! How could he have missed it? ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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When I first watched "Nikita" I thought the same. But as the episodes wore on, he seemed to have forgotten her "shell-shock." I really don't think it added up for him until now. For example, in Mercy (when she's about to kill herself in the apt. and he shows up). She tried to tell him she's not a killer, but he blew her off. He told her it didn't matter who she was, so long as she does the job, but he didn't look convinced.
"It took me four days to find Nikita. That leaves eleven"
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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elevendaze --
Quote:I think he really believed it didn't matter...and he was right. By the time MERCY came around, she had already become a killer. Who she had been before Section didn't matter anymore. "It's not what you did. It's what you do...now." Clinging to her innocent past wasn't going to help her survive in Section, and that was his immediate concern. ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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ErnieFairchild1 |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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If I'm forgetting something that happened in a later episode (before season 5) then please tell me, but it always annoyed me that they show us that Ops and Madelane know she's there for a special reason ( and it can't be for her love of killing people, lol), but then, they never tell us what that reason is. They finish the episode and never mention it again, until season 5 (which wasn't even intended to happen). If season 5 hadn't been done, they would have ended the series without ever telling what the special reason was. Thoughts?
------------------------------------------------- Michael: "..Tell them only what they need to know." Nikita: "In other words, treat them like animals.." Michael: "Animals with guns." |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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First, ITA agree with kglanzman about M knowing N wasnt a cold-blooded killer right from the first ep. He had to have some doubts at least ( dont forget: M is very smart
), but maybe he didn't really want to believe it because, as he said in ''Nikita'': ''the minute I start believing that (she's not a killer), you're cancelled''ErnieFairchild1 ==> it also bugged me that we never knew why N was recruited until s5 Even then... In this ep, TPTB made it look like Maddy and Ops knew what was the purpose of N's frame-up but in s5 they seemed pretty shocked by it, don't you think? Anyway, I hate it when they make us ask questions and never give us the answers afterwards (maybe too many different writers ).
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ErnieFairchild1 |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Your totally right, Audrinem.
------------------------------------------------- Michael: "..Tell them only what they need to know." Nikita: "In other words, treat them like animals.." Michael: "Animals with guns." |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Erine -- No, you're not forgetting anything.
Audrinem -- Quote:Well, Michael lived in denial about his feelings for Nikita for a long time, so his acceptance of her innocence was probably tied into that. ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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I know that Section doesn't do understanding, but considering that they knew Nikita wasn't a murderer from the beginning, they really shouldn't have been quite so ready to cancel her in that deleted scene from Nikita. Perhaps that's why Madeline relented when Micheal pleaded, or maybe the whole thing was a feint to see how invested Micheal was with his " new material."
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Section ( Ops and Maddy) had no idea that Nikita was innocent or why was she recruited. That cr@p was just thrown in for S5, for shock purpose or whatever.
IMHO, this episode has no salt or pepper. First, we're lead on to believe that we're finally going to find out why was N recruited in the first place, but we're left hanging as usual. Then...we expect M to protect N at some level, but he doesn't, he rats her out. Jamie was cute though ![]() |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Pattyko --
Quote:Jamey was in WOB. Kruger was in OTB. ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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KG--
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Section framed Nikita even if the orders were handed down from higher up, so ofcourse Maddy and Ops knew she was innocent. Add to that, that since they knew where on the streets she would be, means they had been watching her long enough to form an initial profile. Some people have viewed Madeline's speech and caress of Nikita cheek in the pilot ep. as a way to appeal to Nikita's abandonment issues. Makes sense to me. I agree however that S5 was probably pulled out of thin air but it is clear that Ops and Maddy knew she was innocent. One of the things that isn't clear in this ep., is whether or not Ops and Maddy knew the reason they had been ordered to recruit Nikita, assuming at this point that the directive hadn't been theirs.
I am never entirely sure whether Micheal ratted Nikita out in this ep. or not. He may have done so if he thought it would protect her or the higher ups might have found out through some other means. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Pattyko --
anansiimoj -- I don't think Michael ratted her out. He promised Nikita he wouldn't interfere, and I think he would honor that word to her. JMHO. ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Anansiimoj--
Quote: Well...Ops...and especially Maddy were smart people. Don;t you think that if Maddy had known Nikita was recruited for a certain purpose, she would have kept a more close watch on her? And if the directive hadn't been theirs...I think they both would have been way more suspicious throught the series... ![]() |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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IF Ops and Maddy knew why Nikita was recruited, would they have continued to put her in abeyance and order her cancellation??
Why? Only to have Mr. Jones avenge his daughter's death? I had the feeling her set-up was perpetrated by Center, and that her profile was added to the many others as a cold-blooded killer in prison. Ops and Maddy just took the bait. I really don't think they knew why she was recruited. H#ll, I don't think TPTB even knew! "It took me four days to find Nikita. That leaves eleven"
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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Elevendaze--
Quote: I couldn't agree more! ![]() |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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elevendaze -- I think I have to agree with that theory, also.
In fact, Operations even questioned Michael about whether or not HE knew that Nikita was the real Mr. Jones' daughter in LNMPA and then made a crack about "sleeping with the boss' daughter." He sounded like he was caught off-guard by that knowledge, but he wouldn't have been at all surprised if Michael had known all along! ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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KG- The writers deliberately left the ending ambiguous. I think knowing how important the search was to Nikita, Micheal didn't interfere, but without confirmation one way or another, the question still exist.
Pattyko- I didn't claim Maddy and Ops knew WHY Nikita had been recruited, just that they knew she was innocent of the crime of which she was accused. Don't forget, that scar-faced dude who set her up worked for a Section substation, not Center. Ops and Maddy set up the frame, they just probably weren't told why. Even they have to follow orders sometime. They framed Kruger as well but didn't hesitate to keep and use him. Do you really think they could have monitored Nikita any harder than they did. Like Micheal, and probably other ops who had survived in Section for years, Nikita learned how to get around their surveillance when she needed to, every system no matter how sophisticated has its weaknesses. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: LFN on DVD: Outside the Box | ||
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anansiimoj -- I'm not denying that it was ambiguous. I'm saying that in my estimation of what I know about Michael and his relationship with Nikita in s3, he would have kept his word to her at that point in time. Had this episode occurred in s1 or s2, all bets would be off.
I never got the impression that Madeline and Operations thought/knew Nikita was innocent...nor would they have cared. Once she was recruited, it was a moot point. She had to prove herself to survive, period. ![]() GOTTA HAVE MICHAEL'S JOYSTICK! I have command. ![]() NIKITA: "You're going to kill me?" MICHAEL: "No. I'll shoot you in the leg and carry you back. But, it'll be easier for both of us if you can walk." "In life there is always some evil, some good. Between the two of them, we just have to do what we can." -- Michel Gagné (Roy Dupuis) in Scoop III "Love is not the neat thing you expect it to be. Love doesn't make things nice. It might ruin you. It makes things a mess. And it's never perfect." -- Thomas Schumacher (Roy Dupuis) in Waiting for Michelangelo |
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